Such a shame. Photo via thestar.com
I have MLB.com notifications setup on my phone. Normally I get fun notifications about the Nats’ announced lineup for the coming game, or that so-and-so is a triple from a cycle, or information about Vin Scully‘s retirement tour. But I certainly wasn’t expecting early Sunday morning to see this alert: “Miami Marlins pitcher Jose Fernandez, 24, killed in boating accident.” It was pretty jarring, and obviously out of the blue.
I’m not going to quote Fernandez’s career stats like other publications have done; I think its tacky and not unlike printing some football player’s career rushing stats along with the announcement that they’re being charged with sexual battery. The story is that a young player is suddenly gone; one week he’s in discussions about whether he’s in the running for the 2016 Cy Young, the next we’re seeing instagram pictures of his pregnant girlfriend and putting ourselves in her shoes and considering the awfulness of the situation. Watching the news lately is already awful enough (every story is about a shooting in a mall or a god-awful political race that can’t end quickly enough); now this adds to the overall awfulness.
Unfortunately, we live in a TMZ-driven society where the death of an athlete, or a celebrity, or a politician of note is given tons of media attention while similar deaths are given no attention at all. An actor commits suicide and its in the news cycle for weeks; a military vet with PTSD commits suicide about once an hour in this country and its just another stat in an ever growing national crisis. There’s nothing more or less tragic about Fernandez dying in an accident; its just that he was a larger than life figure thanks to his unique occupation. Like other baseball players who have died suddenly (Nick Adenhart or Cory Lidle recently, Thurman Munson from my youth for example), its hard to separate the tragedy from the celebrity.
My thoughts are with his family, and I’m saddened that such a vibrant exciting player who clearly had an elan for the game is taken so soon.
Great write up–I totally agree that the media’s relentless flogging of celebrity death stories is grotesque.
I was actually reminded of the death of Lyman Bostock, who was shot to death at the age of 27 near the end of the 1978 season, and who had looked like he was going to have a great career. Similar situation given that Bostock was not only young but was by all accounts a good guy. Seems like these things never happen to a-holes like Kang.
Karl Kolchak
26 Sep 16 at 12:55 pm
Thanks. Kind of a weird topic to think about. I had to look up Cory Lidle’s name, just remembering that a Yankees pitcher had flown his plane into a building. I was too young to remember Bostock I think.
Came across this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseball_players_who_died_during_their_careers … I guess i shouldn’t be surprised that there’s a wiki page collecting the grim details of players who died mid-career. I had forgot about the sad case of Tommy Hanson, former Braves pitcher who died of “organ failure” but was patently an OD. And in 2014 one of the best prospects (Oscar Tavaras) in the game died in a car accident while in his home country.
Todd Boss
26 Sep 16 at 1:25 pm
By the way, Fernandez’s death overshines the “other” ridiculous story going on in baseball in the last week: idiot Steve Clevenger’s comments.
Todd Boss
26 Sep 16 at 1:30 pm
Karl, I also thought of Bostick while reading this, one of the few who was actually murdered (supposedly by mistake, by a jealous husband trying to kill his wife).
With Fernandez, I wonder how many people beyond baseball fans even know who he was, even though he was one of the top 15-20 players in the game. The Marlins just aren’t on most people’s radar. They’re only on ours because they’re in the same division. When Munson died, it was a huge national shock because the Yankees were on national TV all the time, and often in the World Series.
Of course when Clemente died, the Hall of Fame waived the five-year requirement and held a special election to enshrine him immediately.
KW
26 Sep 16 at 2:51 pm
Boz on Fernandez, Kang, Lopez and playoffs, Arnold Palmer . . . and that local football squad:
https://live.washingtonpost.com/ask-boswell-20160926.html
KW
26 Sep 16 at 3:13 pm
I liked Boswell’s first sentence on Fernandez: “What an awful moment yesterday when you read those awful words — “Jose Fernandez Killed in Boating Accident” — and you can’t believe it.”
Yup. that was me yesterday.
all in all, a very good Boswellchat. Great answers on a number of good questions.
Todd Boss
26 Sep 16 at 3:19 pm
KW – related to Clemente being inducted into the HOF immediately, I’ll bet that Fernanadez is now a lock to win the Cy Young this year. He may well have won out over Scherzer anyway, so I don’t have a problem with it if that is the way it goes.
Karl Kolchak
26 Sep 16 at 5:57 pm
Posting from the stadium–this place is EMPTY tonight…15,000 actually in attendance, if that. Very disappointed at the lack of fan support coming of the clinching of the division title. 🙁
Karl Kolchak
26 Sep 16 at 8:22 pm
Just got home a little bit ago–factoring in Ramos’s injury, the rain delay, the embarrassingly tiny crowd and the beat down by a 90-loss team, that was probably the worst of the 200 or so Nats’ regular season games I’ve attended over the years. I never want to see Petit take the mound wearing a curly W ever again.
At least there was good news on Solis as he was activated from the DL today. Great news, as they desperately need to fill those 2-3 open postseason bullpen spots with arms that don’t completely stink.
Karl Kolchack
27 Sep 16 at 12:03 am
Karl, well, the Nats were up against this town’s #1 sport: national politics.
Things look bad with Ramos. The Nats are doing more praying about MRIs this week than the Redskins.
Petit and Giolito have to be done as postseason possibilities, right? On the flip side, I’m thrilled to see Solis back on the active roster. That was an unexpected surprise. He could be huge against the Dodgers.
KW
27 Sep 16 at 5:20 am
Indeed, a tough draw last night. School night, in September, up against the most highly anticipated TV event since perhaps the final episode of Seinfeld and facing a NL West team that nobody cares about.
Agreed on Petit and Gioilto pitching themselves out of contention for post-season roster; no more need for Petit as a long man at this point. I’d rather see Cole in that role if he does’t make the team as the 4th starter.
I’m beginning to agree that the 4th starter may very well end up being Ross/Lopez/Cole each pitching 3 innings like a spring training game. Why not right?
Also, what is up with the injuries mounting? Harper’s thumb, Murphy’s butt, Strasburg’s elbow, now Ramos’ knee? This is not good.
Todd Boss
27 Sep 16 at 8:58 am
With Gio almost guaranteed to start against the Dodgers, you’ve also got to be prepared if he only makes it five or six innings. If Gio and Ross are going back to back, that’s going to be a lot of innings for the bullpen to cover. Such a scenario might indeed be a case for keeping Lopez AND Cole. However, the spots available just got rearranged a bit with Solis’ return.
KW
27 Sep 16 at 9:41 am
Do you assume a 12 man pitching staff? Probably since no 5th starter.
– Scherzer, Roark, Gonzalez, Ross/Lopez as 4th starter
– Melancon, Kelley, Treinen, Glover, Belisle, Rzepczynski, Perez
that leaves no room for a healthy Solis, the faltering Petit, the “needs to be shutdown at this point” Giolito, the experimental Burnett & Latos, or the callups Gott, Grace, Martin.
Could you see Solis at the expense of someone above?
Todd Boss
27 Sep 16 at 11:23 am
Yes, I’m assuming 12 pitchers for the playoffs, with 13 position players (8 starters plus 5-man bench, as they’ve carried most of the season). I don’t think Glover makes it, so Solis over Glover on your list. I also don’t think Perez is a mortal lock over Burnett. Dusty has given Burnett a couple of looks in tight situations.
I think they will take three lefty relievers against the Dodgers, maybe reconfigure for the next round.
I also wouldn’t rule out Lopez AND Cole, for the reasons discussed above with the possibility of short innings from both Ross and Gio. Cole would have to come at the expense of Belisle, I would think. Belisle is a Dusty favorite, though. I would think Latos would be a long shot for RH long man at this point.
Maybe this would be worth a separate post?
KW
27 Sep 16 at 12:22 pm
It wasn’t just last night that attendance has been thin. It’s been that way for much of August and September. We were talking with some fellow ST holders at the game and they have noticed the same thing. Compared to 2012 and 2014 there is far less energy and enthusiasm at the park most nights. Only bobble head giveaways seem to really boost attendance, though I doubt people will be fighting over the Ben Revere garden gnomes tonight.
On the playoff bullpen, no matter who gets selected there are going to be at least two guys who will be big liabilities. Scherzer and Roark are going to have to come up big if they are going to have any chance to advance this year.
Karl Kolchak
27 Sep 16 at 1:57 pm
Unbelievable. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/09/27/wilson-ramos-knee-nationals/91173638/
Ramos blown ACL.
Gut punch for the Nats. Even worse timing for the FA to be Ramos, who now might have to take less money than he would have gotten otherwise thanks to the unfortunate timing of the injury.
Yes, you still have to play the games … but its looking tougher and tougher for the Nats in the NLDS right now.
Todd Boss
27 Sep 16 at 3:53 pm
Regarding Fernandez, it’s been said before, but rich & young is a very bad combination sometimes.
Mark L
27 Sep 16 at 4:31 pm
MarkL: yes that’s true; by the reports that have come out, he was out blowing off steam after a fight with his girlfriend. I guess most people just go to a bar and have a couple of miller lites to blow off steam, not round up their 30-foot boat and go for a midnight cruise around Miami.
Todd Boss
27 Sep 16 at 4:43 pm
Huge bummer with Ramos, but it doesn’t end the season. Man for man, the Nats’ everyday lineup is better than LA’s, even without Ramos (at least IF a few guys would find their strokes). The rotation is deeper, even without Stras. The bullpen is deeper. Don’t throw in the towel, rally ’round the flag. As John C. noted on the last thread, the monkey on the Dodgers’ back is an 800-pound gorilla. The national media will make them big favorites. The Nats are now underdogs, but underdogs with better talent. Dusty is said to thrive in these situations.
The home field situation against the Dodgers may get curious with heavy rains in the forecast here for the next three days. Not sure what the Nats would do about missed games this late in the season. As Boz noted in his chat, the Nats have to finish at least a game ahead of the Dodgers, as the Dodgers win all tiebreakers.
There’s no way to predict what happens to Ramos now. Do the Nats still give him a QO? Is he more tempted to take it? Coming off injury, he isn’t going to get 4/$60M from anyone. Would the Nats still offer 3/30? In the meantime, we should get a good look at Severino. The Nats have also called up Spencer Kieboom for the last few games.
KW
27 Sep 16 at 5:18 pm
I don’t think they’ve got today’s audio posted yet, but F. P. was on Chad Dukes this afternoon and had long riffs on Jose Fernandez and also on how Dusty is terrific in adverse situations, such as the loss of Ramos.
KW
27 Sep 16 at 5:21 pm
I think the Nats have to give Ramos a QO, for the extra draft pick especially. If he accepts, great–catching problem solved for next year as he should be ready by spring training.
No doubt it will hurt his free agent value, however. He was already glacial on the basepaths, and this injury did not help the perception that he can’t stay healthy.
I’m not throwing in the towel, especially not for a five game series. But we’re sort of back to last year in that Scherzer and Harper will have to carry the team. They are the superstars; the ones who supposedly thrive in the spotlight. Especially Harper–if he wants people to forget his “lousy” season he needs to go out and do what Murphy did for the Mets last year.
Karl Kolchack
27 Sep 16 at 7:01 pm
Even without Strasburg and Ramos, there’s still plenty of high end players on which to count on. Turner was on pace for nearly a 10 war season. Rendon has been solid. Harper should be back, as should Murphy. Werth can still work a count. Zimmerman and Espinosa run into a ball once in a while. The bullpen is still pretty solid. Like JohnC says … anything can happen in a short series. It just makes it harder.
Ramos and a QO: have to think about it. On the one hand … if he takes it he gets his pillow contract to get to next off-season, on the other hand .. is he really going to be ready by opening day? Aren’t ACLs 9months?
Todd Boss
27 Sep 16 at 7:41 pm
In 2012, the Nats played the defending world champs in the playoffs . . . without Stras and Ramos. They led 6-0 in Game 5. I forget what happened after that.
In 2014, Bryce had a pretty mediocre regular season, in part because of injuries, but few remember that because he drove the bus in the playoffs, at least as far as it went.
It will take a team effort to compensate for Ramos. Harper, Werth, and Espinosa all need to contribute more offensively. But the guy capable of going from nothing to huge to fill the void nearly by himself would be Zim. Not expecting it from him, but if I’m Dusty, those are the guys I’m whispering to about the need for a little more. Of course one stinkin’ hit would be a good place to start tonight . . .
For those not watching tonight (Tues.), in the top of the 3d, Trea made two terrific throws, from near the warning track in dead center, both on the fly, one to 2B and one to 3B. He didn’t gun anyone down, but I’m sure he planted a seed with a Dodger advance scout.
KW
27 Sep 16 at 8:31 pm
F.P. on Dukes, Sept. 27, segments 5 & 6 (6 is on Fernandez):
http://washington.cbslocal.com/audio/chad-dukes-vs-the-world/
KW
27 Sep 16 at 8:36 pm
One point on when Ramos will be game-ready again: the surgery will be on the same knee, same ACL as before. I don’t know if the second time is worse; some of the stories have mentioned a “reconstructive” nature to the surgery. Anyway, it does make you wonder whether his expected recovery time will be longer than for the first one. I would think the best case might be more June-July than the start of the season.
FWIW, he’ll still be a Nat when the surgery takes place, so the Nats will have first dibs on the medical reports before they have to decide anything. However it comes out, you still figure poor Ramos just lost tens of millions.
KW
28 Sep 16 at 11:57 am
I completely tore my ACL playing softball. It just so happens it was in mid-September. I was running again by the following April, but I was also 12 years older than Ramos at the time and obviously not a professional athlete.
Glad to see Solis pitch a clean inning last night. If he’s 100%, I’ll agree that the bullpen is solid. If he starts getting lit up or goes out injured again, it’s a weakness, especially on the left side, considering that Gio and Ross are both essentially five inning starters at this point.
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 16 at 2:01 pm
Nats Talk has the opinion on a local orthopedic surgeon:
http://www.talknats.com/2016/09/28/another-torn-acl-knee-wilson-ramos-future/
As I think about it, my guess would be that the surgery strongly increases the chances that Ramos will be back with the Nats. I don’t think they would have paid him in the $50-60M range.
KW
28 Sep 16 at 2:03 pm
Maybe you offer him a 1yr $8M with game incentives that take him up closer to the $14-$15M/year he would have expected on the open market. Still nothing close to what pundits were predicting he’d get after his monster year. A bummer for both him and the team.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 16 at 3:24 pm
Todd–if that is a likely offer, he’d be better off taking the QO. In fact, if the Nats do go that route he’d be wise to take it.
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 16 at 8:07 pm
The QO is a tough call. You’d be risking having to pay $16M to a guy who may not play until July and may not be full speed even then. On the other hand, if Ramos does walk, the QO on top of the injury would really limit the offers he would get.
My guess is that he’d be unlikely to sign a one-year deal with the Nats because he’d bank that he could either get the QO price or a better deal elsewhere. I think they’d have to come up with something like 3/24. It’s hard to say, though. Some of the decision-making may have to do with how confident the Ramos camp is after the surgery.
KW
29 Sep 16 at 5:22 am
I think you guys may be understating the impact of this injury to Ramos. He’s been injury prone already, and this is his 2nd ACL. Full time catching is in question, although I do think he makes it back.
Also, I don’t think Ramos starts playing again until June 1, maybe ASG. So, imo, no way they offer the QO because I think they’d view it that he would definitely accept (and I agree). I could see a two year deal though, with maybe a low first year. 2/$15m, split out as $5 then $10? I think Wilson would take that, and it’s a reasonable bet for the Nats. He’d still be 31 when
Wally
29 Sep 16 at 6:48 am
I should have said this: with this injury, there’s no chance he gets a QO from this team. And given that he may not be back until mid next season, what other team is going to offer him a significant chunk of guaranteed money? And, given that this is his 2nd ACL and he very well may be done catching, what team is going to offer him multiple years? The Nats could make a home-town type offer, incentive driven, similar to what Wally suggested or what I suggested.
I like something like 8M guaranteed, which is a normal raise from his 2016 salary as if he was arb eligible, with incentives after that to raise his salary up if he can finish the year. Not too much to commit to as a team, but still kind of paying for past service for Ramos’ 2016 success. I dunno.
I could also see the complete opposite; Nats are all business, offer him nothing more than a lateral contract to this year so that he stays with the team while rehabbing.
I mean, lets be honest; what is he getting on the open market now?
Todd Boss
29 Sep 16 at 9:26 am
As I said above, the Nats will have the advantage of being able to have the first take on the medical info. If Ramos isn’t going to be able to catch, he needs to go to the AL and DH. The Nats would have no place for him, as they’re already riding out a contract with a first baseman who used to be able to play elsewhere.
“Can he catch?” will be as big a question as “when will he be back?” If the Nats and other teams have some confidence that he’ll still be able to catch, he’ll have value. It won’t be 4/60 value, or QO value, but there are only two or three other catchers on the planet who can do at the plate what Ramos did this year. I think he’ll get at least two years of guaranteed money, probably three, if he can still catch.
KW
29 Sep 16 at 11:18 am
If Ramos is not back next season that certainly does leave a huge hole Rizzo needs to fill. The was a rumor reported before Ramos’s injury that they’d be interested in Matt Wieters, but there’s another guy who’s going to get more than he’s worth in free agency given his age and injury history, and the fact that Ramos is now a much less attractive option.
Severino sure is making his case, hitting much better in his limited big league time than he ever has in the minors. He is known to be an excellent defender, but could he possibly produce enough offense to not be a liability? A much cheaper option than Wieters would be to bring in a veteran like Alex Avila on a one year deal, platoon him with Severino and see how the latter develops as a hitter.
Karl Kolchack
29 Sep 16 at 5:46 pm
Severino certainly showed well today (Thurs.). I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get a start in the playoffs, particularly against LHP. Do the Nats think he’s good enough to carry the load in 2017? Lots of questions they’ll be trying to answer over these few games.
Should we be pleased that Ross stretched out to 90 pitches, or concerned that this load only carried him through four innings? Lopez continued his bid to make the postseason roster, not tainted until the HR in the 9th.
KW
29 Sep 16 at 9:44 pm
It looks to me like a Ross/Lopez tandem similar to today might well be the plan for Game 3. That will save the rest of the pen to be available to clean up after Gio in Game 4.
Bottom line is they are going to need to score runs to have any chance, so let’s hope both Harper and Murphy are back in the lineup this weekend.
Karl Kolchack
29 Sep 16 at 10:20 pm
A few tidbits here and there. Ramos conceded in his interview yesterday that he might be better off in AL, although he also kept going back to the theme of how much he loves this organization. Also, Rosenthal and others were hinting that the damage might be more than just to the ACL.
Elsewhere, in Zuckerman’s chat yesterday, he said that Dusty has really been talking up Belisle, leading him to believe that Belisle will be on the postseason roster even though he hasn’t gotten much work recently. Mark also had Petit and Perez in his prospective postseason bullpen. Sorry, but I just can’t see Petit at all, other than the “veteran” angle. Perez has really struggled in the second half as well. Burnett keeps getting looks, including on Thurs., and I hope he can beat out Perez.
KW
30 Sep 16 at 8:35 am
I like what we got out of Ross; for me its more about the pitch count. If he’s effective he’ll last a bit longer, and then Lopez can go the next 3 innings or so (or perhaps just one time through the lineup). That eliminates the need for Petit on the roster honestly … and may be a signal for his eventual non-tender this coming winter (I mean, its not a ton of money, but why would they pay his $3M salary next year?)
Todd Boss
30 Sep 16 at 10:28 am