Yes its a cliche. But you laughed. Photo via allthingsd.com
While I thought the season was symbolically “over” when the Nats got swept at home by the Mets in early September (and, if you were looking for the pin-point event that buried them, look no further than the 6-walk bullpen implosion to blow a 7-1 lead), the Mets officially clinched the NL East crown yesterday by virtue of their 10-2 defeat of Cincinnati.
So how ironic is it that this morning, finally, there’s an honest assessment of the clubhouse from one of our beat reporters. The Washington Post’s Barry Svrluga published a story titled “Manager Matt Williams lost the clubhouse; will he lose his job?” where he quotes the well known “players who did not wish to be identified” to talk in a wide ranging factor about the ills in the Nationals clubhouse that have been alluded to and reported by National guys all season long. Apparently, Williams’ “strategy, communication and trust” have all been issues with the players, across the spectrum of vets/rookies and position/pitchers.
Wow.
Reading the story, I think it has finally dawned on me what the big problem is with Matt Williams and this particular team. Read this quote: “Some players now wonder whether that management of minutia leaves him unable to adjust, to think on the fly.”
He’s a classic micro manager! Of course, how obvious was this all along. I’ve talked frequently about his “color by numbers” managing and his inability to adjust to the situation at hand … but (tying this back to roles we all know from our own workplaces), in reality he’s a classic micro manager who fails to let his veterans do what they have always known how to do, attempting to ramrod in his methods, irritating them so much in the process that they’ve tuned him out. The signs are all there; his famous spring training rigorous schedules, his detailed plan that he brought to his job interview, his adherence to “bullpen roles” all season costing him game after game.
How would you feel if your boss asked you to write a memo about something or another and then pulled a classic Micro Manager move like sitting over your shoulder while you typed it, editing ever sentence as you wrote it? You’d probably be irritated at first and then if it persisted for months and months, you’d likely either tune him out, refuse to do the work or just flat out avoid him. Now imagine if you had no outlet; you’re on a team that spends 8-10 hours a day together in a tight space, takes trips together, is forced to just “deal” with each other for 6 straight months, and you can’t stand your boss. Yeah; no wonder someone was quoted as saying that the “environment was terrible.”
It is what it is: this 2015 team had a number of well established, long since proven they know what they’re doing veterans. A handful of them are on long term contracts with no-trades and job security (Werth, Zimmerman, Scherzer), others are seriously accomplished players who have nothing left to prove in this league (Desmond, Escobar, Gonzalez, Span, Fister to a certain extent), and others may be younger but certainly have stated their claim for respect (Harper, Rendon, Strasburg). I don’t think any of these guys would appreciate being told that their approach is wrong or that their method of preparation isn’t right.
Williams has to go, and the Nats brain-trust needs to really take a hard look at their next manager to make sure they find someone who can properly handle the clubhouse issues that clearly torpedoed this season. I’m sure some of you will argue that “chemistry” is BS or who will blame this season on injuries or pitching or whatever else. Fair enough; you can’t exactly quantify human behavior. But everyone has injuries; hell, the best team in the NL St. Louis lost their Ace starter after just 4 games and are 40 games over .500. And the Mets by pretty much any measure have been more affected by injury in 2015 than the Nats.
Oh well. Better luck next year. As others have said, we’ve just wasted an MVP season from Harper and a precious year of Strasburg; hope 2016 goes better.
I’ve been saying for weeks now that the Nats need to hire a president of baseball operations to oversee what Rizzo is doing because clearly he is just as bad at hiring managers who are not already with the organization and obvious choices as he is at bullpen construction. Rizzo simply cannot be trusted to make the next managerial selection on his own, nor can he be trusted to rebuild the roster from the wreckage of this lost season.
Karl Kolchack
27 Sep 15 at 11:19 pm
And relatedly, the Papelbon fiasco today–what an unmitigated disaster. Forget his pending MLB suspension, the TEAM has to suspend him for the rest of the season. We all knew he was a bit of head case, but from what we’ve seen this past week he seems like a total psycho.
The karma of that trade has been SO bad that I’m half expecting Nick Pivetta to not only gel into a good MLB pitcher, but to no-hit the Nats during his rookie season in a year or two. It is the only way the deal could made to look any worse.
Karl Kolchack
27 Sep 15 at 11:31 pm
Karl, Rizzo is already president of baseball operations and GM. If the Lerners tried to put someone over him, he’d quit and be hired immediately by one of at least 25 other franchises. He isn’t going anywhere, or getting a minder. Matt Williams is another story, and the choking incident may have sealed his fate, if it wasn’t sealed already.
More thoughts later. In the meantime, we’ll be running a two-for-one discount special on closers.
KW
28 Sep 15 at 8:47 am
Absolutely spot on article confirming this post and practically everything i’ve been saying about this team, its moves and its management today. A must-read.
http://natsinsider.com/2015/09/28/ugly-incident-speaks-to-organization-wide-problems/
The Papelbon issue is just a ridiculous embarrassment to the organization (any organization frankly). That Papelbon WAS ALLOWED TO GO PITCH THE NINTH is beyond comprehensible to me. If there was any more proof you needed to know that Williams is absolutely incapable of reading situations or managing “veterans,” there you have it. Papelbon needs to go; Harper is far, far more valuable to the team; good luck getting any value for him this offseason.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 9:04 am
KW — well then, goodbye. Actually, Rizzo is under contract and can’t go anywhere unless the Lerners agree to release him.
And I doubt he would be in that high a demand in a similar role for other teams. Rizzo has proven to be very good at one aspect of being a GM–making trades (although the Papelbpn trade tarnishes even that). He has been lousy at selecting managers; determining whom to give big money contracts to; signing international players and drafting.
Look at it from the Lerners’ standpoint: they agreed to increase payroll significantly for 2015 and all it got them was not only a hugely disappointing team, but a series of major embarrassments. Worse yet, in August and September they have been informing their season ticket holders of a major price increase just as the team was completely imploding.
As an ST holder myself, I go to a lot of games. A lot of those in my section have said they are seriously thinking of canceling for next year. The Nats ST base has always been quite fickle. If they lose several thousand ST holders and all the money that goes with them, how can ownership possibly justify going into next year with business as usual?
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 15 at 9:57 am
Todd–the Lerners are probably going to have to eat 9 or so million of the 11 million Papelbon is owed for next year, and trading him might then fetch a bag of baseball and an autographed bat. They will then likely take a hard look look at the man who directly cost them all that dough: Mike Rizzo, and will undoubtedly ask themselves how they can prevent such a thing from happening again. And then, see my comments above.
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 15 at 10:02 am
FWIW, I’m not sure I buy that the Papelbon deal was Rizzo’s idea. But I have no proof to that end or otherwise. It doesn’t seem like its his MO to waste money on a closer. Do you think Rafael Soriano was Rizzo’s idea? That was a $30M over-reaction to one inning in the 2012 NLDS.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 10:32 am
Karl – I’m not defending Rizzo, just pointing out his position. He isn’t going anywhere, although the Lerners likely will demand some major changes, starting with his manager. Davey was definitely the right guy at the right time, though, and Rizzo made that one happen. And I must admit, I’ve agreed with the majority of deals that Rizzo has made. It seems clear that he’s got to pay more attention to team chemistry, though. He’s also got to start using more draft picks on hitters with some potential power.
Todd – There’s always been scuttlebutt about whether some of the Boras-client deals were really Rizzo’s idea, including EJax, Soriano, and even Scherzer (although he was a D-Back). It’s hard to know. That dirty laundry has stayed under raps much better on South Capitol than it does in Ashburn.
Hard to stomach the Nats’ dysfunction being compared to that of the ‘Skins! It’s good to see a lot of teammate comments backing Harper, though. Could this be a turning point in team support for him? He’s clearly proven it to them on the field now.
KW
28 Sep 15 at 11:03 am
If Boswell’s column this morning is accurate, Todd, then you’re right: Papelbon wasn’t Rizzo’s idea. He writes that the Lerners refused to pick up more payroll for this season, which severely limited the team’s trade deadline options and forced the team to guarantee Pap’s option for next year. (He also writes that Rizzo wanted to have trade talks for Gerardo Parra, but the Lerner’s total payroll inflexibility prevented it.) Rizzo bears full blame for the bullpen makeup to start this season, but a lot of what followed falls on the Lerners, who need to be flexible in order to allow the GM full discretion with trades, etc. Do they want to win or don’t they?
What the hell do you do with Papelbon now? Like Karl says, you won’t get anything for him, so the Lerners meddling may burn them for two seasons instead of one.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/fight-between-jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-turns-nationals-wake-into-a-public-viewing/2015/09/27/15a34adc-6574-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
clark17
28 Sep 15 at 11:05 am
Two things: you have to read the WP article summarizing twitter responses. It includes some of the biggest names in the National sportswriter genre.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/09/27/the-internet-had-a-strong-reaction-to-the-bryce-harper-jonathan-papelbon-altercation/
Second: this might be one of the best JPGs i’ve ever seen: https://twitter.com/danWorthington/status/648248929390342144/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 11:47 am
Are there some parallels between the Nats and Redskins?? We’re starting to see them growing.
– price gouging the fans
– season ticket relocation favoritism to corporations at the behest of individuals (this is why i’m no longer a STH)
– expensive payroll with visions of grandeur
– egotistical owner who makes moves that his management team disagrees with
… hmmmm.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 11:49 am
What do you do with Papelbon? You trade him for whatever you can get. Pay his entire freight and hope for a low-A prospect in return. What else can you do?? Like Jonah Keri said on Twitter: gee, if you have to choose between the two, which do you pick?
I wonder if a “good team” in this league wouldn’t have just released him yesterday.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 11:50 am
Yup: Williams right on top of things. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/09/27/matt-williams-clarifies-he-wouldnt-have-used-jonathan-papelbon-had-he-seen-video-earlier/
How the F*ck do you not know the “extent” of the altercation?? He was 10 feet away. The f*cking dugout isn’t that big.
I have a new word for Williams: Incompetent.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 12:25 pm
There are plenty of terrible human beings in sports (and in other walks of life) who keep getting jobs because they’re good at what they do. Just look at the NFL offseason headlines. Pimplebrain is an effective, affordable closer. Rizzo will get some low-A pitcher for him.
Sunday did change two things: before the incident, I would have bet that Pap would have been back with the Nats next season, like it or not. Now, most will be shocked if he is. Also, I think it was the final straw for Matt Williams. Like it or not, I would have given him a 30% chance of surviving before yesterday. Now, I don’t think there’s any going back.
Here’s the curveball of it all: is there now a chance that Storen stays and closes? We all had him ticketed for leaving, even though the Nats would be selling low. If he stayed, though, he’d know without any doubt that the higher-ups don’t really trust him.
KW
28 Sep 15 at 12:32 pm
KW: Would absolutely *love* that turn of events and I’m sure it would play pretty darn well in the clubhouse at this point. Axe Papelbon, re-install Storen as closer. Maybe even extend him as an olive branch.
Buuuuuuut Rizzo’s comments on Storen were less than flattering, and we’ve seen him get rid of guys for seemingly petty reasons in the past.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 12:50 pm
You know what I just realized? Papelbon has a frigging no-trade clause. Per Cots, its limited and he can block 17 clubs and by all accounts it was not altered when they acquired him.
Awesome! Good luck trading him in the off-season.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 1:14 pm
I was afraid of a no-trade, considering the machinations it took to get him in the first place. Can he just be booed out of town until he relents?
KW
28 Sep 15 at 1:38 pm
Just got a WP alert: Papelbon has been suspended for the rest of the season.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 1:50 pm
Finally. I’d been holding off commenting until hearing.
Anything short of this would have been extremely damaging for the organization and Rizzo. Just no credibility to allow a guy here for 6 weeks to choke a player and not be suspended. Doesn’t matter that is Harper, it should have happened no matter who it was, and it is at least a first step towards accountability. I think they also need to think hard about never letting him appear again in a Nats uniform. Better to admit that acquiring him was a big mistake than to cover it by keeping him.
In a weird twist (for me), I saw Ryan Zimmerman in a restaurant last night ( he was with his wife and little girl). He looked seriously hangdog and unhappy, and I can only assume it was over this. Have to believe that someone like him (and Werth, presumably) feels like it is a personal slight When something like this happens on their team. It impacts leadership from the owners to Rizzo to Williams and also to the senior players.
Wally
28 Sep 15 at 2:10 pm
I’ve said this before, but I will mention it again: I’ll miss Desi. Just seems like a real class guy. I agree that he is a flawed player and a good business decision not to extend, but few guys on the team have been as stand up as he has been.
Wally
28 Sep 15 at 2:14 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/09/28/jonathan-papelbon-suspended-four-games-for-bryce-harper-altercation/
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 2:17 pm
Honestly, the proper course of action here is obviously to release Papelbon outright, but is there any precedent for that? What team has ever eaten $11M just to get rid of a jerk player? Maybe he has a morals clause or some other mechanism to not pay him, but I doubt it.
Is Rizzo really safe here? If trading for Papelbon was actually his idea, it’s one of the worst decisions ever, and yesterday’s events have made the team into a national laughingstock. So however high Rizzo’s stock was coming into this season, the awful bullpen he installed, coupled with the fact that the “World Series favorite” has become a punchline that will endure long after many of the specifics of this season are forgotten has to put Rizzo on shaky ground.
But… if Papelbon was a Lerner trade, the incident yesterday lays bare how little control Rizzo has over his own team. Consider that even after the catastrophe of the Soriano signing [another Lerner decision], ownership turns around and again burdens the roster with another aging headcase closer. Except this one strangles Bryce Harper! And he’s signed through next season and HE CAN’T BE TRADED! If this was the Lerners’ call, Rizzo looks like a fool to stay with the team, and if the bad calls weren’t his then his stock is still high enough to get a good job elsewhere.
So if I’m Rizzo and the trade really wasn’t my call, I’d leverage this situation into either (a) increased powers from ownership [total roster control, no more Lerner-Boras side deals, and a flexible payroll cap during the season] or (b) I’d force ownership to fire me by releasing Papelbon outright and burning up $11M of their money. Either way, I get what I want. Point being, this season is now such an epic disaster that major changes MUST come.
On a side note, how about Cubs bench coach Dave Martinez as manager? He was a popular member of Maddon’s staff here in Tampa, and he apparently had a steller interview for the Nats job before MW (who Rizzo always wanted) was hired.
clark17
28 Sep 15 at 2:23 pm
Uggla got released with more than $11M owed … but he couldn’t play. There’s lots of dead money DFAs out there but I can’t think of one off hand for being an a-hole 🙂
Everyone involved has gotten taken down in this. I’d really, really like to know the behind the scenes thought process on Papelbon acquisition.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 2:32 pm
Boz now chatting (http://live.washingtonpost.com/ask-boswell-20150928.html) after the Nats kept the press waiting for 90 minutes to get their stories straight. Calls BS on Harper “punishment” in first post.
FWIW, the Nats will have a fair amount of financial wiggle room next season (~$50M; Todd has a better handle on this) if they decide that they have to take the $11M. They’re already going to be paying McLouth and Janssen to go away, just not nearly as much.
KW
28 Sep 15 at 2:54 pm
Wally – agree on sad farewell on Desi. All four of the presumably departing FAs, Desi, JZim, Span, and Fister, seem like class acts. It seems like an end of an era, particularly with Desmond and Zimmermann. Too bad that Jordan couldn’t go out on a better note on Saturday.
KW
28 Sep 15 at 2:56 pm
Clark, I doubt this was truly a Rizzo deal or a Lerner deal. The real culprit is the lack of budget flexibility. I’ve heard it before from Boz that the Lerner’s wont allow any increase mid-season. So Papelbon was simply the only bullpen arm that Rizzo could acquire without any increase to the team’s payroll THIS season. Otherwise we could have been more serious about Kimbrell, Chapman, Benoit, etc.
I find it disgusting that the Lerners have this policy when they are making lots of revenue (we aren’t Tampa or Oakland here), and would make more with moves that could have put the team over the top this year. Instead the season goes down the toilet and now you have loyal STH’s like me considering walking away from this dumpster fire. It doesn’t help that their ticket reps have treated me like garbage for the past two seasons without one care for working with me towards an amicable solution. But that’s a different topic…
I also fault Rizzo for knowing the Lerner’s policy on mid-season payroll increases and not withholding part of his budget for the trade deadline.
How about Randy Knorr for skipper? I’ll always remember his move to take out Soriano during the middle of a non-save-situation outing after Davey had been ejected.
MG
28 Sep 15 at 3:09 pm
https://twitter.com/dcsportsbog/status/648581577006555136
Think Papelbon is ever coming back?
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 4:13 pm
Agree; the “freezing the payroll” thing smacks of the Lerners trying to run this team like a business. Here’s the budget, stick to the budget. well, maybe they learned their lesson this year.
Todd Boss
28 Sep 15 at 4:15 pm
I just got home from the stadium a little bit ago. It was a great day at the park thanks to Scherzer finally getting his mojo back, save for not even getting to see Harper pinch hit in the 8th inning. Instead, we had to see Reed Johnson, who is not only 38 years old and about five years removed from being any good, but hadn’t batted since April.
On the way home I had the misfortune of hearing Rizzo’s press conference. I used to like the guy, but he came off as a totally arrogant putz. He actually tried to somewhat justify what Papelbon did by saying it was an example of a “veteran” player taking issue with the lack of hustle of a “young” player.
Harper has been in the league four years, has over 500 base hits and nearly 100 home runs, yet our idiot GM and manager are still treating him like some dumb rookie. I kept waiting for one of our local lapdog media peons to ask Rizzo how long Harper needs to play before HE is considered a “veteran” and not subjected to punishment for an incident that was not his fault in any way.
Rizzo then went on to use the old cliche that Papelbon will no doubt “learn” from this incident. Really? The freaking jerk has been in the league for over a decade and doesn’t already realize that trying to choke out and possibly seriously injure the team’s franchise player is not acceptable? Especially when you just got here a couple of months ago? Unbelievable.
Rizzo then totally dismissed a question about Svurgla’s article, by saying he would respond to allegations from an “anonymous player.” That article about the organizational arrogance is dead on…and nobody projects that arrogance worse than Rizzo. He needs to be reigned in or he needs to go. Or I’m going to find better things to do with all that cash I give the Nationals every year.
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 15 at 8:05 pm
Todd–I wonder how many Papelbon jerseys the Nats managed to sell before they pulled them off the shelves…a few dozen? They ought to do the decent thing and offer free exchanges for other player jerseys like the Patriots did for those who bought Aaron Hernandez jerseys after he was arrested for murder.
Karl Kolchack
28 Sep 15 at 8:08 pm
I would be surprised if more than 100 Papelbon jerseys were sold. With two very likeable stars, Harper & Scherzer, and some other likeable secondary guys in Werth, Zimm, Stras, and Rendon, I can’t believe Pap woould be higher than anyone’s 7th choice (assuing you don’t buy any of the impending free agents’ jerseys).
Pap and Williams must go. There’s no question.
Andrew R
28 Sep 15 at 11:41 pm
Boz from Tuesday’s column:
“If Matt Williams had been at Ford’s Theatre in 1865, he would have loved the play. Did something go wrong? Nope, didn’t see a thing. Nobody said anything, either.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/changes-are-coming-to-the-nationals-after-disappointing-season-brawl/2015/09/28/221f72b8-664b-11e5-9223-70cb36460919_story.html
Boz may seem a bit behind the times at times, but give him credit now: the institutional voice for DC sports is front and center calling for Williams and Papelbon to be gone, even if it means eating the contract. His chat from Monday (conducted throughout a near no-hitter) is also required reading, whether you agree with all of his points or not:
http://live.washingtonpost.com/ask-boswell-20150928.html
And thanks to Scherzer for doing everything in his power to get our attention back on the field . . . as well as reminding us what might have been if he had stayed like this all season. (Nats record in Max-started games is only 17-15.)
KW
29 Sep 15 at 5:30 am
karl, if you really want to be enraged, go read CJ Nitkowski’s tone-deaf piece where he says that players “overwhelmingly support” Papelbon in this situation: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-fight-current-ex-players-support-pitcher-long-time-coming-092715
It reads like the worst examples of “get off my lawn” sports writers who we all can’t stand reading, using every stupid cliche in the book. Just an awful piece; yeah like you’re ever going to get a real honest read from someone with anonymous BS like this. If you asked my opinion about my supervisor at work anonymously versus professionally, you’re going to get two different answers, always. Why? Because anonymously I can say stupid, unaccountable things about anything, whether its justified, backed up or even ethical. If i’m jealous about someone or think he’s an a-hole even if I’ve never met him, yeah just give me an open mike with no accountability and i’m sure you’ll get an honest read.
The opinions i’ve read from ex players willing to put their money where their mouth is (as well as their name) are far more reasonable. mark Derosa, Dirk hayhurts, etc. So ridiculous.
To your point about Rizzo? Yeah; totally agree. Just let me know when Harper has “done enough” in the majors to stop being treated like a child. Maybe when he wins his 3rd MVP by the age of 26. nope, probably not then either because he’s “only” 26 and doens’t have the world wisdom of his lesser, older colleagues.
stupid stupid.
Todd Boss
29 Sep 15 at 9:57 am
Kilgore had a good piece yesterday in which he called such opinions of Harper tired and extremely dated. If they somehow derail Harper’s MVP vote over this, it will be insane, as he’s posted the best offensive season of any active player.
Kilgore isn’t the only one; nearly all the local beat writers have been calling BS on the Harper-was-in-the-wrong angle, based on numerous clubhouse sources. Just shows how lazy and out of touch most of the national baseball media is (the “women’s auxiliary,” as Michael Lewis calls it in Moneyball).
Bryce just needs to go out and hit ten bombs this week, including at least seven in NYC (hard to do in the Citi cavern), and shut ’em up with his play.
KW
29 Sep 15 at 11:20 am
I agree with both of you, but am less happy with some of the official, on the record comments from Nats. First, Harper gets ‘disciplined’ too? I understand it’s a crock, but why are they paying lip service to it? And then Zim, in what I think he intended as several supportive statements, says things like ‘could he have run harder? Could he have been on 2d? Yes [but he’s better now than last year].’ Not exactly unambiguous support, which you can see in Harper repeatedly saying ‘I’ve got three more years here …’
I go back to this: Papelbon instigated a confrontation and choked another player in the dugout. Doesn’t matter who the other player was, nor whether he was right about the hustle factor. That guy, and that guy only, gets suspended for a long time, and maybe DFA’d. Involving the counterparty in the discipline is like blaming the victim.
Wally
29 Sep 15 at 1:40 pm
I agree with Wally. I’m not happy at all with some of the comments coming from the team. I love Zimm, but what was the point of those remarks? It’s like the defense lawyer for a rape defendant saying, “well, the victim was dressed a bit provocatively…” Not remotely relevant, Ryan! Papelbon isn’t being excoriated for jawing at Harper for supposedly not running out a flyout. If he was, Ryan’s comments might have merit. But Papelbon physically assaulted Harper with violent force! That act negates everything that happened before it, because there can be no justification for it. Talking about Harper allegedly dogging it sounds like attempting to justify Papelbon’s violent act, and I’m sick of dumbass former and current athletes muddying the issue by even bringing up Harper’s on field actions. Jawing at a teammate is part of the game; Papelbon’s act was a crime, and any of us would have left the park in cuffs for doing what he did.
Clark17
29 Sep 15 at 3:01 pm
Sigh. I’m just ready for it to be over and to move on to thinking about what the Nats need to do to get better next year. But no, Harper and the whole team (except the instigator) have to go to NYC and have it thrown in their faces all weekend by the worst press in the world. Think about that when you dream of those pinstripes, Bryce.
KW
29 Sep 15 at 3:11 pm
I can’t wait for spring training. By then, we should have a new manager, a new closer, shortstop and starter at the very least. Hopefully the new mgr will also give ultimatems to our spectacularly underperforming mainstays. I don’t think we can withstand another year when half of our lineup hits well below the league average for the full year.
old man
30 Sep 15 at 9:58 am
Time to move on. Trea Turner is starting to look comfortable at the MLB plate. I hope the HR is a sign that there’s more power there than we’ve been told to expect. He has nine this season over all his stops, is only 22, and looks like he’s never lifted a weight in his life. Is it too much to hope that he can get up to the 15-20 HR range in a few years? The big questions with him seem to be: 1) can he cut it defensively at SS, and 2) will he start 2016 in DC, or in SYR to get the Super Two year back?
As much as we’ve cursed Rizzo recently, coming up with viable, young replacements for Desi and JZim in one trade – a trade in which the Nats weren’t even originally involved – is starting to look close to brilliant.
As for all the Nats bashing in the national media, is there any criticism of the Giants, who are whimpering home with about the same record as the Nats and are actually the defending WS champs? Any at all? Or do they just get a free pass on odd-numbered years? Maybe the Nats have the same odd-number issue. Maybe STH’s should hold out for an every-other-year plan!
KW
30 Sep 15 at 1:17 pm
Harper incident: yeah i’m about done with it. I spent most of the day irritated and enranged by some of the ridiculous “hot takes” out there. Nitkowski’s especially.
turner: video of homer here: http://m.nationals.mlb.com/news/article/152307928 Yeah that was a good swing. By all accounts Turner is fantastic glove, great range at short, adequate enough arm to get the job done and stay there, and of course fast enough to really turn heads. If he can post an upper-300 OBP we’ve found our leadoff savior for the next 6 years (thanks Rizzo; should have been 7).
San Francisco gets a pass because 1) Bochy is a good manager, 2) they play west coast so two thirds of the country is asleep when they play, 3) Its San Francisco; not exactly equivalent to New York, 4) they have 3 rings in 6 years, yeah they get a break.
Todd Boss
30 Sep 15 at 3:26 pm
Having just returned from SF Bay Area last week, most shrug off this year’s Giants as an anolamy, others blame global climate change or Carly Fiorina. Todd’s right though, with 3 rings in 6 years, they get a pass.
old man
30 Sep 15 at 4:08 pm
You guys are better than me, being able to let go of this sh$t show. Truthfully, as a fan, I am disappointed enough in the Nats reactions across the board, both before and after the Bryce thing, that I’m ready to see most of this group go and start over with some kids.
Now Werth is out there saying Williams lost the clubhouse. What’s the point of saying this now? Williams is getting crucified up and down the league, why pile on now when it serves no purpose. So of course I don’t know what’s going on inside the clubhouse, but from out here, it seems to me its only a self serving comment designed to distance himself from the failure, like the months when he was a below replacement level player. Let’s blame it all on Williams!
And on the Harper-Papelbon thing, the part that is annoying me the most is this: the support of Papelbon glosses over the most important thing. Papelbon wasn’t fighting the ‘good old boy, play the game right’ fight, he was getting back at Bryce for Bryce’s criticism of him going after Machado’s head. He picked something that others would support, and it wasn’t even true when it happened. All this ‘Bryce doesn’t hustle’ stuff just gives credibility to a self centered, self interested thug.
And then to cap off my rant, I am also getting so tired of hearing Nats officials speak. Its one thing to not expect them to give us the full truth, or say things that would be hurtful to players. But some of this stuff is so nonsensical that its like reading TASS in the old Soviet Union days. Harper is ‘disciplined for his part’ in this thing, yet Williams cannot offer 1 thing that he could have done differently on the radio today. He got asked several times and he had nothing. So we aren’t supposed to believe these words, I guess. After one of the bullpen disasters, Rizzo says something like Williams ‘managed masterfully’. Then Rizzo sarcastically says in Svrulga’s article (which are great) ‘sorry, I couldn’t predict Stammen and Jannsen would get hurt at the same time’. Uh, … no one is expecting you to replace Bryce Harper in the middle of the season buddy, but two middle relievers? Yes, a GM is supposed to have a plan for injuries, or act to replace them satisfactorily. What’s is the standard here? Other teams seem to be able to speak intelligently to their fan base, without this abject nonsense.
Ah, I shouldn’t have posted. No one needs to hear any more griping. But these guys have come off so poorly, I am sorely tempted to chuck the lot of them and follow some one else. Maybe Tampa. Can I still post here if I do 🙂
Wally
30 Sep 15 at 5:22 pm
I think I had the timing of the Werth comment wrong. I heard it on Sirius MLB channel, but I think they got it from the last Svrluga article.
My bad on that.
Wally
30 Sep 15 at 6:12 pm
This Svrluga article confirms a lot of things I’ve been saying for a while about how the Nats tone-deaf moves have alienated the clubhouse. And, holy cow WOW you have to read the end with the details about Werth’s rant.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html?postshare=571443633832745
This comment (talking about Scherzer’s huge deal while Zimmermann got an undermarket bid and how Clippard had to go b/c he was making $8M but it was a-ok to bring in a clubhouse cancer in Papelbon making $11M) is particularly damning:
“We thought we were building a clubhouse here with players who were going to do things the Nationals Way,” one player said. “But then they don’t keep some of those guys, and they bring in others who haven’t come up that way. What does that teach you? How does that breed loyalty?”
Todd Boss
30 Sep 15 at 6:41 pm
Just for the record for anyone digging around the Internet 25 years from now for ammo during the Harper HOF induction debate, last night in game #159, beyond meaningless, wet and nasty, Harper absolutely busted it down the line to beat the throw on what should have been an easy double-play ball, allowing a vital insurance run to score to help preserve a win for Stras. Anyone tweeting about that? Did it make it on SportsCenter? C.J., want to speak for all former players about that?
Also probably not widely reported, but Stras did not have anywhere close to his A game, yet played the grinder much better than he often has done in the past, giving up no runs over six. To me, that’s just as encouraging a development for the “new and improved” Stras as it is to see him posting a string of double-digit strikeout games.
Yes, I’m still watching. Can’t help it.
KW
2 Oct 15 at 7:54 am
KW: yeah I saw that too. And he was excited when he beat it out. That “hustle” isn’t want you hear about Harper though when you hear the tired narrative about him.
I was only watching last night b/c I had Strasburg going in fantasy 😉
Todd Boss
2 Oct 15 at 11:16 am
Wagner didn’t even mention the Harper hustle play in his WaPo game story. He did, however, touch on the question of what would become of Stras with only one year left on his contract. We’ve kicked that around here a bit as well. He has certainly restored his marketability, but as we’ve discussed, the trade return for only one year likely wouldn’t be high.
I’m conflicted on the subject, which feeds right into the core question for the offseason: how good can the Nats be in 2016? If they can add the pieces they need to make the playoffs and actually contend, then it’s probably worth it to keep Stras 2.0 around to solidify the rotation. But are the Nats really that close? Was it just some injuries and a bullpen meltdown, things that can be rectified? Or is it mostly average and aging talent, taking an additional hit with the loss of guys who will be leaving, looking at a win total in the 80s again next year? I honestly don’t know.
My feeling is that the Nats are close to being able to contend for the watered-down East and/or a wildcard, but not for a WS title. They’re about the same level as the Caps and Wiz, good enough to perennially flirt with getting to the dance, but not to stay for very long. It will take more than a little tweaking, a new manager, and a restocked bullpen to get them over that hump . . . although those would be good places to start.
KW
2 Oct 15 at 3:27 pm
Great Jon Heyman article on our season of debacle.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25324936/inside-baseball-nationals-to-let-williams-go-and-more-mlb-moves
Todd Boss
2 Oct 15 at 3:51 pm
Strasburg: don’t trade him, try to win with him in 2016 before saying good bye.
2016: Odds are that the NL East will still suck. Phillies, Braves will lose 90+ games again and the Marlins won’t spend enough to compete. So how good will the Mets be? They won’t have Cespedes, they’ll still have all the good pitching though. They have the same issue with Wright that we have with Zimmerman; always hurt. Maybe its something in the water in VaBeach. Anyway. I think you fix the edges of the roster, get another bat, and attack. I’ve got a big ‘if I was GM…” post that i will post once the season is done.
Todd Boss
2 Oct 15 at 3:58 pm
I think we have to consider Stras a sign or trade guy this winter. I’d love to sign him, but think the team unlikely to offer what it will take. But the idea of having such a key piece in his walk year has to be concerning, after watching 4 big ones leave, and I do believe that he would bring back a good return. Not life altering, but look at what Price and cueto got back, and I think we would exceed those because of the ability to generate a comp pick.
Wally
3 Oct 15 at 7:26 am
Signing Strasburg: If they balked at extending Zimmermann, is the team really considering extending Strasburg? Strasburg is a Boras client: how many Boras clients sign extensions in general? His whole MO as a player rep is to get to FA with a big name and generate buzz. Plus, Stras was mediocre 1st half, awesome 2nd half; well who is he? Has something changed? Maybe we’d be selling high after his awesome finish. If he leaves who takes his place? a FA?
I dunno. Strasburg is the kind of player you try to win with, not flip for depth from a playoff-calibre teeam. Detroit *acquired* Price when they were good, only moving him when it became clear they were bad this year. I don’t think you move Strasburg unless this team is 10 games under .500 at the break next year. Which lets be honest isn’t going to happen.
Todd Boss
3 Oct 15 at 8:40 am
If Heyman’s info is accurate, Rizzo wanted Clip and Parra but wasn’t allowed to take on the salary, which explains a lot. He turned to Pap because the Phillies were willing to pay to have him go away. Looks like the Nats may have joined that club. I was interested in Parra at the deadline, but he really tanked with the O’s. I don’t think he’s going to be what the Nats need in free agency going forward.
The Nats’ pitching staff clearly would be better in 2016 with Stras as a part of it, but my thinking is like Wally’s: it’s hard to see an asset like him just walk away with only a draft pick in return. On the flip side, do we trust a staff of Max, Gio, Roark, Ross, and Cole/Jordan/Treinen, with Giolito possibly ready by June? Could the Nats get a second-tier starter in return for Stras, or Stras + a prospect or two? Maybe someone like Tyson Ross from the Padres? (Or have the Pods permanently blocked Rizzo’s cell?)
As much as I’d hate to give up the 2016 first-rounder (even with comp picks at the end of the round), I’m thinking more and more that Justin Upton has to be a bat for the Nats to consider. I don’t think Cespedes will age well, nor would he have as much defensive versatility as JUp. Those are the only two FA bats I see who could give legit protection in the lineup to Harper. Heyward just isn’t enough of a threat, even though he’s LH and younger. Upton would also replace Desi’s power production in the lineup. Rizzo had JUp with the D-Backs and really wanted Cespedes when he defected, so he’s had his eye on both of those guys for a long time. The Mets have made noises about trying to keep Cespedes.
KW
3 Oct 15 at 8:48 am
Todd was posting at the same time I was. As I noted, I certainly agree that the staff is better with Stras. I also agree with Todd that Stras isn’t going to extend. I think that ship has sailed. I’m not jumping up and down to trade him, but I think you’ve got to explore it. Whether you can get a return that can help the Nats right away in a playoff run would remain to be seen. I have my doubts about that, too. I don’t think one year of Stras by himself would net the ready-now, high-caliber player the Nats would need to help right away in a playoff push.
So call me conflicted. Really, I think the odds would be about 80/20 that he stays, but they’ll at least listen.
KW
3 Oct 15 at 8:55 am
If someone comes in with a ridiculous offer (like, a Wil Myers at the time prospect, not that it is going to happen), then yeah you take it. If you’re offered something that sets the team up for years to come, who wouldn’t turn that down? Strasburg (as a pitcher) is always one pitch away from a 2nd Tommy John and i’m sure that’s in the back of people’s mind. I mean, if we’re going to be statistical about it, if you think Roark returns to a 5 win pitcher and Strasburg was a 2 win pitcher this year (by b-r.com), then you theoretically *improve* your team by trading him. I’m not entirely on that kind of “WAR analysis” but… that’s what the stat tells us.
This whole “we’re not going to add payroll mid-season” nonsense has to stop. Even the Lerners now should see the idiocy of their own doing two years in a row with this stupid policy. If you make the damn playoffs, you pay for the added payroll. You have to spend money to make money. If they thought blindly that their $160M payroll committment was enough and was always going to be enough, well sh*t happens and sometimes you have to adjust. No wonder they love Matt Williams as a manager; he’s as inflexible strategically as they are!!
Clippard and Parra would have made huge differences on this team.
Todd Boss
3 Oct 15 at 11:07 am
Yep, still worth watching. For those of you who missed history on Sat. night while watching muddy college football, here’s a good rundown of just how historic Max was:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/04/max-scherzer-no-hitter-mets-nationals
He posted the second-highest game score, behind only Kerry Wood’s 20-K game. His nine K’s in a row were one short of Seaver’s ten in a row. Sixteen of the seventeen K’s were swinging. (The non-swinging one probably should have been a walk, but it should have been a K on the previous pitch that was called a ball.)
And yes, it should have been a perfect game . . . again.
Oh, and the Nats struck out 18 times, setting the nine-inning record for K’s in a game with 35 between the two teams.
KW
4 Oct 15 at 7:51 am
I’ll re-post the “best and worst” Nats games post 2015 season and Scherzer’s games will feature prominently. As will the 7-1 blown lead game.
Todd Boss
4 Oct 15 at 9:10 pm