{"id":95,"date":"2010-08-30T14:11:47","date_gmt":"2010-08-30T18:11:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.nationalsarmrace.com\/?p=95"},"modified":"2017-01-18T12:48:06","modified_gmt":"2017-01-18T17:48:06","slug":"the-best-5-tool-player-of-all-time","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/?p=95","title":{"rendered":"The best &#8220;5-tool&#8221; player of all time? (updated)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The 400 homer\/10 gold glove club question (see post on <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nationalsarmrace.com\/?p=78\">August 10th 2010 here<\/a>) spurred a different question into my mind.\u00a0 Who is baseball&#8217;s greatest 5-tool player?\u00a0 For those of you who don&#8217;t know what the 5 tools are:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Speed; indicated by stolen bases statistically.<\/li>\n<li>Fielding\/Defense: indicated by gold gloves somewhat, even though the Gold Glove voting process is known to be bad.<\/li>\n<li>Arm: no real statistical measure, just rumors and observations.<\/li>\n<li>Hitting for average: career batting average<\/li>\n<li>Hitting for power: career homers<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>My dad and I were talking about this same question and he says the answer is <strong>Willie Mays<\/strong>.\u00a0 And I have a hard time disagreeing with him.\u00a0\u00a0 He was fast (338 career SBs), he was a fantastic center fielder (12 straight gold gloves), he was known to have a cannon for an arm, he hit a career .302 with 3283 hits and belted 660 homers.<\/p>\n<p>Who else might be in the conversation?\u00a0 Lets take a look at some of the candidates:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Barry Bonds<\/strong>: Career batting .298, 762 homers, 2935 hits and 514 steals.\u00a0 8 gold gloves, ending a streak suddenly in 1999.\u00a0 Which is also probably when he started juicing (his homers per season jumped from 34 to 49 to 73 in 1999-2001).\u00a0\u00a0 The only thing Mays had on Bonds was his arm.\u00a0 Bonds always played left field, where you can &#8220;hide&#8221; poorer outfielders who don&#8217;t necessarily need the range of a center fielder or the cannon arm of a right fielder (to prevent first to third base runners).\u00a0 But Bonds had significantly more steals and homers (whether or not you discount them).<\/li>\n<li><strong>Ken Griffey Jr.<\/strong>: Definitely up there in the argument.\u00a0 Clearly he was fantastic defensively (10 straight gold gloves) and had a great arm.\u00a0 Great power (630 career homers).\u00a0 Only 184 career steals and a lifetime .284 BA with 2781 hits dings him in comparison to Mays.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Here&#8217;s some names that have multiple of the tools, but are missing one or two key ones:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Babe Ruth<\/strong>: Great power and average combo, he obviously had a good arm starting as a pitcher, but he had zero speed and ate himself so large that he could barely play the outfield.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Ted Williams <\/strong>is always an interesting test case for the &#8220;What could have been?&#8221; question.\u00a0 He hit .344 with 521 homers and a really good argument that had he not lost 3 full seasons in his absolute prime to WWII (plus most of two others to Korea in his mid 30s) that he&#8217;d be closer to 700 homers for his career.\u00a0 But he was known to be a defensive liability and had only 24 sbs for his career.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Mickey Mantle<\/strong>: famously said that &#8220;if 40\/40 was so impressive, I&#8217;d have done it every year.&#8221;\u00a0 And its hard not to doubt him.\u00a0 Playing in a time when there wasn&#8217;t much of a need for him to steal bases, he still ended up with 153 on the career and routinely had 15-20 each season.\u00a0 He retired with 500+ homers, a career ba of .298, a legendary reputation for roaming centerfield in Yankee stadium and an even more legendary reputation for drinking himself out of baseball prematurely at the age of 36.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Joe DiMaggio:<\/strong> one of the best pure hitters of the 20th century.\u00a0 Career .325 BA, 361 homers.\u00a0 Lost 3 years in his absolute prime to the WWII and retired incredibly early at 36.\u00a0 Played a great center-field (his time predates gold gloves).\u00a0 but very very few stolen bases.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Stan Musial<\/strong>: one of the &#8220;lost players&#8221; of the 20th century, in that it is easy to forget his name when talking of the all time greats.\u00a0 3600 career hits, 475 homers, career .331 BA.\u00a0 Great hitter.\u00a0 Played center field for 20-some years for St. Louis.\u00a0 But as with DiMaggio, very few SBs.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Bobby Bonds<\/strong>: nearly a 40\/40 man one year but strikeout rate is so excessive.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>How about some more modern players?<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Paul Molitor <\/strong>another guy to think about.\u00a0 504 career SBs, .306 BA, only 234 homers but not much on the defensive side, having been mostly a DH for the last half of his career.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Alfonso Soriano<\/strong>: his 40\/40 season was legendary (there was preliminary talk of him doing a 50\/50 season, which hasn&#8217;t even been approached), and he&#8217;s currently got 309 career homers and 271 career SBs.\u00a0 A scatter brained hitter though,\u00a0 defense so bad that he&#8217;s barely holding on in left field, and zero arm.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Jose Canseco<\/strong>: another 40\/40 guy.\u00a0 462 career homers and 200 career Sbs.\u00a0 .266\u00a0 hitter though.\u00a0 Good arm in right but never a good fielder (remember the infamous ball bouncing off his head over the fence for a homer?).<\/li>\n<li><strong>Vladimir Guerrero<\/strong>: another near 40\/40 guy. \u00a0Probably worth of further consideration; retired with 449 homers, 181 SBs, a career .319 hitter. \u00a0But was literally one of the worst baserunners of all time and was poor defensively despite a strong arm.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Carlos Beltran<\/strong>: injuries have just killed him; a former speed\/power hitter and one of the first mega contract guys.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Brady Anderson<\/strong>: most people regard his 50 homer season either a fluke or (more likely) the result of early PEDs.\u00a0 But the fact remains that only he and Barry Bonds have ever put up seasons which had both 50 homers and 50 sbs.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Craig Biggio<\/strong>: 414 sbs, 291 homers, .281 career BA, 4 gold gloves at 2nd base.\u00a0\u00a0 2nd baseman though, presumably b\/c he never had the arm for Short.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Rickey Henderson<\/strong>: obviously fast as the career leader in SBs.\u00a0 .279 career BA.\u00a0 He twice hit 28 homers while leading the league in SBs.\u00a0 One gold glove and two silver sluggers, and a liability as a left fielder.\u00a0 Maybe not.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>here&#8217;s a couple &#8220;what if&#8221; guys, as in what if they hadn&#8217;t been injured or otherwise sullied their careers:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Bo Jackson<\/strong>: A hip injury picked up while playing his hobby football ended his career basically at the age of 28.\u00a0 But he was electric.\u00a0 Who can forget his legendary all star homer, a bomb to dead center that went 448 feet.\u00a0 Bo never won a gold glove but he played a premium defensive position in Center and certainly had the arm to play right.\u00a0 He just missed a series of 30\/30 seasons, maxing out with 32 homers and 27 steals).\u00a0 He did not hit for average though, not at all.\u00a0 Best full season BA was a paltry .272.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Josh Hamilton<\/strong>: After well documented troubles with drugs and the law, this former 1-1 draft pick currently is leading the Majors in batting average (.356), has 26 homers, and plays a very very good center field.\u00a0 He could hit 96 on the gun in high school.\u00a0 His failing is SBs; only a handful on the year.\u00a0 But in a league that so often chews up and spits out flash in the pan players, it is refreshing to see Hamilton succeed.\u00a0 Visual Baseball though discounts both his speed and his range.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Daryl Strawberry<\/strong>: had a 39 homer, 36 sb year.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Eric Davis<\/strong>: career year in 1987, hitting 37 homers and stealing 50 sbs.\u00a0 His first 2 full seasons produced a .286\/.389\/.560 with 64 HR and 130 SB in 147 attempts.\u00a0 Decent average, great power, great speed, with some clear capabilities in the outfield.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>In January 2010, <a href=\"http:\/\/visualbaseball.wordpress.com\/\">Visual Baseball <\/a>introduced some really neat visualizations that graphically show each player&#8217;s strengths and weaknesses.\u00a0 I&#8217;d love to see a tool that allows people to plug in individual players, but in their analysis two 2010 players popped up as being very close to the perfect 5-tool player:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Ben Zobrist<\/strong>: based on his <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseball-reference.com\/players\/z\/zobribe01.shtml\">2009 stats<\/a> he hit for average (.297) and power (27 homers).\u00a0 He had 17 steals.\u00a0 He showed pretty amazing flexibility by playing every outfield position besides pitcher and catcher at some point.\u00a0 Unfortunately, he&#8217;s take a pretty significant step backwards in 2010, sligging nearly 200 points less.\u00a0 Odd.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Carl Crawford<\/strong>: He&#8217;s already lead the league 4 times in SBs and has been hitting an average of 13-15 homers a season.\u00a0 Not nearly Mays-esque stancards but very solid.\u00a0 .305 Batting average with healthy slugging percentages.\u00a0 Left fielder though, but his Visual Baseball graph shows significant range and arm.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>And finally, something to think about:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Alex Rodriguez<\/strong>: 600 career homers, .303 career BA.\u00a0 300 career steals, a couple of Gold Gloves, and a pretty good arm while playing short.\u00a0 Posted probably the best ever 40\/40 season in 1998 (42 homers, 46 sbs).\u00a0 Too bad he had to go and juice it up so that his career is forever sullied.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>In the end, I&#8217;d have to still put Mays, with a shameful shrug of the shoulders when considering both Bonds and Alex Rodriguez.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>2017 Post-publishing update<\/strong>: this post was initially done in 2010. \u00a0There&#8217;s several up-and-coming players who are putting their names into this discussion.<\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s two additional links to consider that were done after this post was published in 2011 at Baseball America.<\/p>\n<p>http:\/\/www.baseballamerica.com\/online\/majors\/news\/2011\/2612208.html<\/p>\n<p>http:\/\/www.baseballamerica.com\/online\/majors\/best-tools\/2011\/2612185.html<\/p>\n<div id=\"_mcePaste\" style=\"position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 228px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow: hidden;\">My dad and I were talking about this same question and he says the answer is Willie Mays.\u00a0 And I have a hard time<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; The 400 homer\/10 gold glove club question (see post on August 10th 2010 here) spurred a different question into my mind.\u00a0 Who is baseball&#8217;s greatest 5-tool player?\u00a0 For those of you who don&#8217;t know what the 5 tools are: Speed; indicated by stolen bases statistically. Fielding\/Defense: indicated by gold gloves somewhat, even though the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[357,130,153,596,1209,1714,1712,682,251,260,639,474,1715,975,1713,238,607,161,1409,653,355,252,1224,279],"class_list":["post-95","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-nonnatsbaseball","tag-alex-rodriguez","tag-alfonso-soriano","tag-babe-ruth","tag-barry-bonds","tag-ben-zobrist","tag-bo-jackson","tag-bobby-bonds","tag-brady-anderson","tag-carl-crawford","tag-carlos-beltran","tag-craig-biggio","tag-daryl-strawberry","tag-eric-davis","tag-joe-dimaggio","tag-jose-canseco","tag-josh-hamilton","tag-ken-griffey-jr","tag-mickey-mantle","tag-paul-molitor","tag-rickey-henderson","tag-stan-musial","tag-ted-williams","tag-vladimir-guerrero","tag-willie-mays"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=95"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13321,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95\/revisions\/13321"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=95"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=95"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nationalsarmrace.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=95"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}